More thoughts on LFR and raiding.

In response to my post on raiding, Crooked had a reply that I enjoyed reading. It's good to get perspective and especially on something as varied as raiding experiences.

I was planning to reply there but as I typed and edited and typed and edited I realized was basically writing a post.  I don't have a problem with long comments but not everyone likes a sub-post to their post, and so I'm back here.

Anyways, Crooked had some good comments that I wanted to discuss.

"Same mechanics, less punishing"

This is a great idea, to me, of what the tuning of LFR should be.  There should be a risk of failure, but it shouldn't be quite like what it is on normal+ raiding.

By having the same mechanics but toned down, you get a couple of benefits. LFR players can become confident enough to try to move up to normal+ raiding, just like Blizzard seems to want.  They've had a taste of the mechanics and can understand how it should be handled, even they aren't yet aware of how quickly it must be handled or anything like that.

Also, when normal+ raiders do come into LFR, for whatever reason, they don't develop the bad habits of not worrying about mechanics, as Grumsta talked about in a comment.  To be fair, this is likely what Blizzard is trying to do but I'm guessing they just have trouble finding that right balance.

I also think they really need to limit single-person-causes-the-raid-wipe in LFR.  When you have a group of individuals that really have minimal communication and investment, team failure because of one or two people is going to really sour the experience.  I won't say never have it, but if you it is a must to the encounter, find a way to give it more room for error

"... so you are not motivated to improve over multiple runs. You don't care about spec or rotation. You just want to get in there, see the content, collect your rewards and get out. Once."

I disagree. I  kind of agree. I agree. I agree. - how's that for a reply? :)  For me, I do want to improve but the homework dedication of a normal+ raider doesn't appeal to me, so you are right that I don't care about spec or rotation in that sense. Or at least, I don't care about it to maximize DPS. I care about what feels fun to play, again for me. Stealing from my own reply to Grumsta:

Despite how I may have made it sound, I don't mind learning a rotation, but I guess...I like discovering it and learning myself. I often actually like theorycrafting in games. It helps me feel like I really know my character. Now, I'm sure I'm not great at it, but I do enjoy it. I think the problem is that my amateur level theorycrafting is good, but not the best and people often want the best for a raid. And I do understand why they would want that. That means if a team would need me to be a certain spec with certain enchants and other such, it would just push me away from raiding.

But Crooked does nail it that, seeing the story to the end once is typically good enough for me. Well, unless the raid is fun in and of itself, but that hasn't been the case this expansion.

"There is no 'legendary grind' for normal+ raiders (ignoring the shipyard, but I won't go there), it just comes eventually, in the process of gearing up and boss progression"

This was a great insight and point.  I hadn't really thought about it but it makes sense (even though I think other bloggers have said it too - maybe I'm just slow on the uptake).  The collection of things would just come as part and parcel of the whole thing of progression raiding.  So that's good to note, but as Crooked also said, it creates a grind feeling for us non-raiders if we care to finish the storyline.

Credit where credit is due though - Blizzard did seem to acknowledge that issue this time by allowing alternative means to collect tomes/stones/macguffins via profession boxes or follower missions or etc.  So, that is actually a good thing that they should be applauded for.  The pace of collection that way is a bit slow but not the end of the world.

"If LFR is meant to be so easy anyone can participate and succeed, make it so, but don't reward people for participating. Unfortunately, I think if you reduce or even take away the reward, no-one will actually want to do it, despite what people say otherwise."

For me, I do think there should be some rewards but I fully agree that it shouldn't be of the level that normal+ gives.  I think the rewards would be needed for two reasons - 1) like you said, without it, participation would drop off and 2) I do still enjoy some gear progression/advancement.

I think what really needs to be addressed, and I'm not sure how to do this yet and am thinking about it elsewhere, is that I feel forced into LFR, if I want to see the story/get the ring/follower/etc.

Now, obviously, I'm not forced to do anything in the game, but, as I've said before, it really does take something out of the game to follow the majority of the story of an expansion and never see it resolved.  You get all of the investment and lore and build-up and then...nothing.  If you don't raid.  If you raid, you get it all.  If you don't, you can go find it out on other websites, but you never get to experience it yourself.  Is that fair?  That's a whole other post and something you did hit on.

 

"This is why I don't hold much hope for LFR, and have leant in the direction of 'remove it'."

I think LFR was doing its job and while it wasn't perfect before, this go round it is especially failing.  But the concept of LFR is good for me.  And I think that's the problem.  Who is LFR for?  Is it tourist mode?  Is it for loregeeks and RP people that want to see the end game story?  Is it for raiders that don't have the time commitment needed for normal+ raiding?

I don't have an answer for this right now and it is all part of the next post I'm thinking about.  But for me, as a casual* player, I think LFR is good in concept but needs love in its current state.

I plan to write another post ruminating on raiding, LFR, fairness and such, but thanks to Crooked for some good feedback that made me think!

* I also some day plan to talk about what does it mean to be "casual".  The fact that I am blogging kind of makes me not causal in a way.  I really wish we knew more about the typical WoW player.  Not so we can judge people that are too involved or too causal or anything like that, but so we can really understand what people know and do.  Again, for a later day.

** Huh.  I'm just now resurfacing into reading blogs and I'm seeing that this LFR conversation has been going on around me.  It was just coincidence that my post hit on LFR because I had bad runs the night before.  Looks like a there is a fair amount of discussion going on.  I guess I'll go read.  You should too.